Underground poker is poker played in a venue that is not operating in accordance with the gaming laws of its jurisdiction.
What exactly is 'underground' poker depends on the local laws. In many (but not all) jurisdictions, an unlicensed poker game may still be legal if the game is played in a residential building, the host does not profit from hosting the game, and/or the buy-in fees do not exceed a certain threshold .. Even if the game itself is illegal, in some jurisdictions it is not illegal to just play such a game - in such cases, only the organizers and/or organizers of such games are civilly and/or criminally responsible. The intensity of the harassment of clandestine poker by law enforcement agencies also varies by location. Often, players and hosts of underground poker games are far more concerned with being targeted for armed robbery and other violent criminal acts as opposed to being targeted with legal action.
An underground poker room will usually generate revenue for the profit of the host(s) and/or to pay for operating expenses by collecting rake and/or other house fees while not being a licensed gaming operator. Organized crime groups, such as the American Mafia, often host, provide protection for, or are otherwise involved in high-stakes underground poker games. Underground poker venues can also generate revenue by selling food and beverages (with or without the appropriate licences) and/or by offering side games with a built-in house edge such as blackjack or craps in addition to (or as an alternative to) collecting rake and/or house fees, but this is less common.
Canada[edit]
Under the Criminal Code, any game of poker that is not specifically licensed by the relevant provincial or territorial gaming regulator is covered by either Section 201 or Section 204 of the Code. Section 201(1) makes it an indictable offence for to '(keep) a common gaming house or common betting house' with a maximum penalty of two years' imprisonment, while Section 201(2) makes it a summary offence to be 'found, without lawful excuse, in a common gaming house or common betting house' with a maximum penalty of six months' imprisonment and/or a $5,000 fine.[1] On the other hand, Section 204(1)(b) provides that 'a private bet between individuals not engaged in any way in the business of betting' is exempt from the provisions of Section 201, and thus is not unlawful.[2] This has been consistently interpreted to mean that a poker game taking place in a dwelling house is legal in Canada, so long as the host is not taking 'rake' or otherwise directly profiting from hosting the game. Whether a poker game played on a similar 'not for profit' basis somewhere other than a dwelling house (for example, in the warehouse of a small business) also enjoys the exemption of Section 204(1)(b) is disputed.
The laws governing gaming in Canada were written prior to the invention of internet gaming. Notably, Section 201(2) makes no distinction with regards to whether individuals present in an illegal poker room are actually playing poker, while on the other hand there has never been (as of 2013) a prosecution in Canada simply for participating in Internet gaming not licensed in Canada.
The actual penalties imposed for hosting or participating in illegal poker vary widely, and appear to depend greatly on the sensibilities of the presiding judge(s). For example, in 2011 a Winnipeg man (on appeal) won a conditional discharge despite having pleaded guilty to the more serious charge of keeping a common gaming house, meaning he did not get a criminal record.[3] For the less serious charge of being in a common gaming house, discharges (including absolute discharges) are not uncommon, especially if the accused has no prior criminal record. But this is not always the case, for example in 2012 several Sudbury men were fined for the less serious charge of being in a common gaming house, meaning they did get criminal records. Among those fined in that case was at least one man whom the presiding judge acknowledged had not even been playing.[4] Therefore, anyone charged even with the less serious offence of being in a common gaming house with respect to a poker game would be well advised to seek counsel prior to entering a plea on the charge.
Thinkpad t410 ram slots. A gourmet food shop in Spain has been raided by police officers following reports it was running an illegal poker den and breaking COVID-19 rules. Which makes the discovery of the underground. Watch later Poker buddies Antonio Esfandiari and Phil Laak saw the pilot episode of their 'Underground Poker' show air Wednesday at 10 p.m. EST on the Discovery Channel. The trailer of the pilot. Underground card clubs may seem like the perfect alternative to regulated poker rooms, but players should proceed with caution. The ancient rule of caveat emptor, or 'buyer beware,' definitely applies here, as players who patronize private games can be targeted from all angles. As a part of a three-hour block of entertainment, cable television's Discovery Channel premiered a night of television called ' All In All Night.' While the other two programs were adequate, the.
United Kingdom[edit]
Under the Gambling Act 2005, commercial high-stakes poker is restricted to licensed casinos. However, the Act and associated Regulations do allow for private games in homes and similarly private venues, such as workplaces, without the need for special licences. Poker may also be played in pubs to a certain extent, although the regulations governing such games are complex.
Nevertheless, illegal games are believed to be widespread, especially in Greater London. In a number of cases, club premises certificates have been withdrawn following allegations of illegal poker.[5]
United States[edit]
In the United States, the legality of poker varies from state to state.
New York[edit]
Under New York state law, it is unlawful to profit from promoting a poker game without the appropriate gaming licences. Simply playing in such a game is not unlawful.
Historical New York clubs[edit]
Some of the longest operating underground clubs have been in New York City. Two of these, the Diamond Club and the Mayfair Club, were famous proving grounds for such now well-known poker players as Howard Lederer, Erik Seidel and Dan Harrington. The New York Police Department, however, closed these clubs in the summer of 2000 during the Rudolph Giuliani administration's law and order campaign[citation needed].
Recent years[edit]
Underground poker nevertheless flourished in New York City after the Giuliani busts. In Manhattan, circa 2004, the most well-known clubs included PlayStation near Union Square and New York Players' Club (NYPC) (sometimes referred to as 72nd Street) on the Upper West Side.
On May 26, 2005 New York City police raided and shut down numerous rooms, including PlayStation and NYPC.[6][7][8] Clubs that were not targeted then voluntarily closed their doors for some time in spring 2005, but were mostly reopened by that summer.
The reopened clubs began to draw some celebrity clientele, including Alex Rodriguez of the New York Yankees[9] (who was officially reprimanded for playing in such clubs), and Robert Iler (who was actually present for the October 23, 2005 bust of the club Ace Point at 328 E. 61st Street).[10] Raids continued regularly throughout 2005, closing clubs such as Rounders on West 25th Street in the Flatiron District of Manhattan,[11] and, after a series of busts and re-opens, the Brooklyn Players' Club in Park Slope area of Brooklyn.[12]
Clubs generally continued throughout New York City during 2006 and into2007, but seemed to the clientele to keep their size smaller to avoid theattention that the larger clubs such as NYPC and PlayStation brought.
However, robberies still remained common throughout 2007. This issue reached a crescendo when the City Limit, at 251 Fifth Avenue in Manhattan, was robbed on November 2, 2007. Frank DeSena of Wayne, NJ was killed in an accidental weapons fire during the armed robbery.[13]
See also[edit]
References[edit]
- ^Criminal Code, RSC 1985, c C-46, s 201.
- ^Branch, Legislative Services. 'Consolidated federal laws of canada, Criminal Code'. laws-lois.justice.gc.ca. Retrieved 6 August 2017.
- ^'Court overturns sentence for illegal poker club'. www.winnipegfreepress.com. Retrieved 6 August 2017.
- ^nurun.com. 'Men fined for playing illegal poker'. Sudbury Star. Retrieved 6 August 2017.
- ^'404'. www.gamblingcommission.gov.uk. Retrieved 6 August 2017.
- ^Hays, Tom (2005-11-27). 'Crackdown Raises the Ante for Poker Clubs in New York'. Boston.com. Retrieved 2007-08-14.
- ^Associated Press (2005-11-21). 'Authorities crack down on NYC poker clubs'. USA Today. Retrieved 2007-08-14.
- ^Lee, Jennifer (2005-05-28). '2 Manhattan Poker Parlors Raided by Police'. The New York Times. Retrieved 2008-03-26.
- ^Associated Press (2005-11-02). 'Yankees tell A-Rod to avoid illegal poker clubs'. Syndicated to ESPN.com. Retrieved 2007-08-14.
- ^Friedman, Michael (2005-10-23). 'Anthony Soprano Jr. Caught in Poker Raid'. Pokernews.com. Retrieved 2007-08-14.
- ^Fahim, Kareem (2005-10-16). '13 Arrested In Police Raid On Poker Club'. The New York Times. Retrieved 2008-03-26.
- ^'Blogger'. jauntyjoker.blogspot.com. Retrieved 6 August 2017.
- ^Wilson, Michael; Annie Correal (2007-11-04). 'New Jersey Man Is Killed in Midtown Poker Game'. The New York Times. Retrieved 2008-06-29.
External links[edit]
It is difficult to write about something illegal. That's because the sources are hard to check and those sources try to talk in the vaguest manner, hiding the most important facts. Thanks God for the Internet where people speak openly about illegal stuff – like it is talked about some toy store.
We may start with 'Observer' article, which says about a woman who played in New York underground clubs in the second half of 2000s.
'The game took place in nondescript buildings. Instead of nice dresses I wore sweatshirt with a hood and headphones. There were cameras everywhere, sometimes I had to get through burly securities. Some facilities issued IDs. However, security systems were always dull and ineffective. Cops could enter the room almost as easily as robbers', remembers the hero of the article.
According to the author's words she met people of various professions: bankers, security officers, movie directors, students and lawyers as well. There were especially many lawyers. They taught everyone that one can't go to the jail for gambling. Only for facilitating the facility and organizing gambling one might get arrested.
She later faced this situation on practice.
'Cops burst into my favorite club - All-In Club in Manhattan. They took our I.Ds and told us to stay at our seats. They took only one man with them, the rest were free to go. They confiscated all the money. It sucked (especially for those who were playing for the whole day and got big stacks), but it was way better than ending up in jail.'
This happened in 2007.
The police wasn't the biggest problem. Players were afraid of the robberies.
'In November of 2007 school teacher from New Jersey Frank DeSena played in City Limits club in Gramercy (New Jersey district),when the robbers broke in there. They put everybody to the floor. One of the criminals accidentally dropped the shotgun. It shot, DeSena died right there,' remembers the heroine of the article.
Gramercy
After the incident, the author has never played in underground clubs again. Like many other players. Then there were raids, many clubs were shut down.
Then there are blah-blah discussions in the article. A little bit of history, a little bit of other stuff. It is boring.
We went to Reddit to go on.
'I dealt to Phil Ivey'
On Reddit website people are free to create any topics. Someone is willing to claim he played with Phil Ivey at one table and everyone is free to ask anything from him. He wasn't going to prove anything, no one was going to check this info – you may believe or you may not believe the guy.
We had to check.
In one of these topics the unknown author claims he used to be a dealer in expensive underground games in New York and dealt cards to the celebrities.
'I am only 21 but I've already dealt in one ofNew York underground clubs. I've dealt 1/2 NLHE all the way up to 50/100 NLHE. Celebrities do show up and lose six figures within the hours,'- this is how the topic starts.
The author claims Jamie Gold, Phil Ivey, Tiffany Fox (famous rapper) and also Alex Rodrigues (professional baseball player) used to be among the players.
The biggest pot I've dealt was $210,000. Full house vs. full house. Action on all the streets and 5-bet on the river. 50/100 NLHE. One player showed KK, the other KJs. The flop was K J J,' remembers author.
According to his words, he came to underground poker when he was a 17-year-old teen. After an unsuccessful try he realized that being a dealer is much more profitable for him. He just got into college and needed money.
'They paid good, $50/hour on average at low stakes and $80-150/hour at high stakes'.
Many dealers will tell you the same story. Tried to play, wasn't good, started to deal. To get to the underground, you must know people. This is very relevant to the Russian poker society and Russian culture in general as knowing people opens all the doors and creates all kinds of opportunity.
In New York knowing the right people you could enter underground poker world and become a dealer at such an early age.
Underground poker is poker played in a venue that is not operating in accordance with the gaming laws of its jurisdiction.
What exactly is 'underground' poker depends on the local laws. In many (but not all) jurisdictions, an unlicensed poker game may still be legal if the game is played in a residential building, the host does not profit from hosting the game, and/or the buy-in fees do not exceed a certain threshold .. Even if the game itself is illegal, in some jurisdictions it is not illegal to just play such a game - in such cases, only the organizers and/or organizers of such games are civilly and/or criminally responsible. The intensity of the harassment of clandestine poker by law enforcement agencies also varies by location. Often, players and hosts of underground poker games are far more concerned with being targeted for armed robbery and other violent criminal acts as opposed to being targeted with legal action.
An underground poker room will usually generate revenue for the profit of the host(s) and/or to pay for operating expenses by collecting rake and/or other house fees while not being a licensed gaming operator. Organized crime groups, such as the American Mafia, often host, provide protection for, or are otherwise involved in high-stakes underground poker games. Underground poker venues can also generate revenue by selling food and beverages (with or without the appropriate licences) and/or by offering side games with a built-in house edge such as blackjack or craps in addition to (or as an alternative to) collecting rake and/or house fees, but this is less common.
Canada[edit]
Under the Criminal Code, any game of poker that is not specifically licensed by the relevant provincial or territorial gaming regulator is covered by either Section 201 or Section 204 of the Code. Section 201(1) makes it an indictable offence for to '(keep) a common gaming house or common betting house' with a maximum penalty of two years' imprisonment, while Section 201(2) makes it a summary offence to be 'found, without lawful excuse, in a common gaming house or common betting house' with a maximum penalty of six months' imprisonment and/or a $5,000 fine.[1] On the other hand, Section 204(1)(b) provides that 'a private bet between individuals not engaged in any way in the business of betting' is exempt from the provisions of Section 201, and thus is not unlawful.[2] This has been consistently interpreted to mean that a poker game taking place in a dwelling house is legal in Canada, so long as the host is not taking 'rake' or otherwise directly profiting from hosting the game. Whether a poker game played on a similar 'not for profit' basis somewhere other than a dwelling house (for example, in the warehouse of a small business) also enjoys the exemption of Section 204(1)(b) is disputed.
The laws governing gaming in Canada were written prior to the invention of internet gaming. Notably, Section 201(2) makes no distinction with regards to whether individuals present in an illegal poker room are actually playing poker, while on the other hand there has never been (as of 2013) a prosecution in Canada simply for participating in Internet gaming not licensed in Canada.
The actual penalties imposed for hosting or participating in illegal poker vary widely, and appear to depend greatly on the sensibilities of the presiding judge(s). For example, in 2011 a Winnipeg man (on appeal) won a conditional discharge despite having pleaded guilty to the more serious charge of keeping a common gaming house, meaning he did not get a criminal record.[3] For the less serious charge of being in a common gaming house, discharges (including absolute discharges) are not uncommon, especially if the accused has no prior criminal record. But this is not always the case, for example in 2012 several Sudbury men were fined for the less serious charge of being in a common gaming house, meaning they did get criminal records. Among those fined in that case was at least one man whom the presiding judge acknowledged had not even been playing.[4] Therefore, anyone charged even with the less serious offence of being in a common gaming house with respect to a poker game would be well advised to seek counsel prior to entering a plea on the charge.
Thinkpad t410 ram slots. A gourmet food shop in Spain has been raided by police officers following reports it was running an illegal poker den and breaking COVID-19 rules. Which makes the discovery of the underground. Watch later Poker buddies Antonio Esfandiari and Phil Laak saw the pilot episode of their 'Underground Poker' show air Wednesday at 10 p.m. EST on the Discovery Channel. The trailer of the pilot. Underground card clubs may seem like the perfect alternative to regulated poker rooms, but players should proceed with caution. The ancient rule of caveat emptor, or 'buyer beware,' definitely applies here, as players who patronize private games can be targeted from all angles. As a part of a three-hour block of entertainment, cable television's Discovery Channel premiered a night of television called ' All In All Night.' While the other two programs were adequate, the.
United Kingdom[edit]
Under the Gambling Act 2005, commercial high-stakes poker is restricted to licensed casinos. However, the Act and associated Regulations do allow for private games in homes and similarly private venues, such as workplaces, without the need for special licences. Poker may also be played in pubs to a certain extent, although the regulations governing such games are complex.
Nevertheless, illegal games are believed to be widespread, especially in Greater London. In a number of cases, club premises certificates have been withdrawn following allegations of illegal poker.[5]
United States[edit]
In the United States, the legality of poker varies from state to state.
New York[edit]
Under New York state law, it is unlawful to profit from promoting a poker game without the appropriate gaming licences. Simply playing in such a game is not unlawful.
Historical New York clubs[edit]
Some of the longest operating underground clubs have been in New York City. Two of these, the Diamond Club and the Mayfair Club, were famous proving grounds for such now well-known poker players as Howard Lederer, Erik Seidel and Dan Harrington. The New York Police Department, however, closed these clubs in the summer of 2000 during the Rudolph Giuliani administration's law and order campaign[citation needed].
Recent years[edit]
Underground poker nevertheless flourished in New York City after the Giuliani busts. In Manhattan, circa 2004, the most well-known clubs included PlayStation near Union Square and New York Players' Club (NYPC) (sometimes referred to as 72nd Street) on the Upper West Side.
On May 26, 2005 New York City police raided and shut down numerous rooms, including PlayStation and NYPC.[6][7][8] Clubs that were not targeted then voluntarily closed their doors for some time in spring 2005, but were mostly reopened by that summer.
The reopened clubs began to draw some celebrity clientele, including Alex Rodriguez of the New York Yankees[9] (who was officially reprimanded for playing in such clubs), and Robert Iler (who was actually present for the October 23, 2005 bust of the club Ace Point at 328 E. 61st Street).[10] Raids continued regularly throughout 2005, closing clubs such as Rounders on West 25th Street in the Flatiron District of Manhattan,[11] and, after a series of busts and re-opens, the Brooklyn Players' Club in Park Slope area of Brooklyn.[12]
Clubs generally continued throughout New York City during 2006 and into2007, but seemed to the clientele to keep their size smaller to avoid theattention that the larger clubs such as NYPC and PlayStation brought.
However, robberies still remained common throughout 2007. This issue reached a crescendo when the City Limit, at 251 Fifth Avenue in Manhattan, was robbed on November 2, 2007. Frank DeSena of Wayne, NJ was killed in an accidental weapons fire during the armed robbery.[13]
See also[edit]
References[edit]
- ^Criminal Code, RSC 1985, c C-46, s 201.
- ^Branch, Legislative Services. 'Consolidated federal laws of canada, Criminal Code'. laws-lois.justice.gc.ca. Retrieved 6 August 2017.
- ^'Court overturns sentence for illegal poker club'. www.winnipegfreepress.com. Retrieved 6 August 2017.
- ^nurun.com. 'Men fined for playing illegal poker'. Sudbury Star. Retrieved 6 August 2017.
- ^'404'. www.gamblingcommission.gov.uk. Retrieved 6 August 2017.
- ^Hays, Tom (2005-11-27). 'Crackdown Raises the Ante for Poker Clubs in New York'. Boston.com. Retrieved 2007-08-14.
- ^Associated Press (2005-11-21). 'Authorities crack down on NYC poker clubs'. USA Today. Retrieved 2007-08-14.
- ^Lee, Jennifer (2005-05-28). '2 Manhattan Poker Parlors Raided by Police'. The New York Times. Retrieved 2008-03-26.
- ^Associated Press (2005-11-02). 'Yankees tell A-Rod to avoid illegal poker clubs'. Syndicated to ESPN.com. Retrieved 2007-08-14.
- ^Friedman, Michael (2005-10-23). 'Anthony Soprano Jr. Caught in Poker Raid'. Pokernews.com. Retrieved 2007-08-14.
- ^Fahim, Kareem (2005-10-16). '13 Arrested In Police Raid On Poker Club'. The New York Times. Retrieved 2008-03-26.
- ^'Blogger'. jauntyjoker.blogspot.com. Retrieved 6 August 2017.
- ^Wilson, Michael; Annie Correal (2007-11-04). 'New Jersey Man Is Killed in Midtown Poker Game'. The New York Times. Retrieved 2008-06-29.
External links[edit]
It is difficult to write about something illegal. That's because the sources are hard to check and those sources try to talk in the vaguest manner, hiding the most important facts. Thanks God for the Internet where people speak openly about illegal stuff – like it is talked about some toy store.
We may start with 'Observer' article, which says about a woman who played in New York underground clubs in the second half of 2000s.
'The game took place in nondescript buildings. Instead of nice dresses I wore sweatshirt with a hood and headphones. There were cameras everywhere, sometimes I had to get through burly securities. Some facilities issued IDs. However, security systems were always dull and ineffective. Cops could enter the room almost as easily as robbers', remembers the hero of the article.
According to the author's words she met people of various professions: bankers, security officers, movie directors, students and lawyers as well. There were especially many lawyers. They taught everyone that one can't go to the jail for gambling. Only for facilitating the facility and organizing gambling one might get arrested.
She later faced this situation on practice.
'Cops burst into my favorite club - All-In Club in Manhattan. They took our I.Ds and told us to stay at our seats. They took only one man with them, the rest were free to go. They confiscated all the money. It sucked (especially for those who were playing for the whole day and got big stacks), but it was way better than ending up in jail.'
This happened in 2007.
The police wasn't the biggest problem. Players were afraid of the robberies.
'In November of 2007 school teacher from New Jersey Frank DeSena played in City Limits club in Gramercy (New Jersey district),when the robbers broke in there. They put everybody to the floor. One of the criminals accidentally dropped the shotgun. It shot, DeSena died right there,' remembers the heroine of the article.
Gramercy
After the incident, the author has never played in underground clubs again. Like many other players. Then there were raids, many clubs were shut down.
Then there are blah-blah discussions in the article. A little bit of history, a little bit of other stuff. It is boring.
We went to Reddit to go on.
'I dealt to Phil Ivey'
On Reddit website people are free to create any topics. Someone is willing to claim he played with Phil Ivey at one table and everyone is free to ask anything from him. He wasn't going to prove anything, no one was going to check this info – you may believe or you may not believe the guy.
We had to check.
In one of these topics the unknown author claims he used to be a dealer in expensive underground games in New York and dealt cards to the celebrities.
'I am only 21 but I've already dealt in one ofNew York underground clubs. I've dealt 1/2 NLHE all the way up to 50/100 NLHE. Celebrities do show up and lose six figures within the hours,'- this is how the topic starts.
The author claims Jamie Gold, Phil Ivey, Tiffany Fox (famous rapper) and also Alex Rodrigues (professional baseball player) used to be among the players.
The biggest pot I've dealt was $210,000. Full house vs. full house. Action on all the streets and 5-bet on the river. 50/100 NLHE. One player showed KK, the other KJs. The flop was K J J,' remembers author.
According to his words, he came to underground poker when he was a 17-year-old teen. After an unsuccessful try he realized that being a dealer is much more profitable for him. He just got into college and needed money.
'They paid good, $50/hour on average at low stakes and $80-150/hour at high stakes'.
Many dealers will tell you the same story. Tried to play, wasn't good, started to deal. To get to the underground, you must know people. This is very relevant to the Russian poker society and Russian culture in general as knowing people opens all the doors and creates all kinds of opportunity.
In New York knowing the right people you could enter underground poker world and become a dealer at such an early age.
The level of play in underground clubs
New York, 1946
It all depends on the stakes and the club – just like in regular facilities. It's important to remember the following:
'Many people forget that underground games are tougher that the regular ones, especially in New York. Those who are in the active search of these facilities are professional players, not just some tourists'.
It is all different. There could be a nice table of tourists and degenerate poker gamblers, for instance.
About gamblers. They are the most valuable clients in any underground (and legal) facility. Those people lose all of their money in one day, then they borrow the same amount and lose it as well. Later that night they come back having $63 and a dream to make it to the $30,000.
That is their sort of swamps. Degenerate gamblers in traditional online and live casinos also do that.
Co-owner of the chain of underground clubs
In the other Reddit topic the other person claims he worked as a concierge for more than 2,000 players and also have been a dealer and a partner in 40 underground clubs in Connecticut, New Jersey, all the regions of New York and Long Island.
Answering the question about the profits, he said following:
Underground Poker Discovery Guide
'It is all relevant, but during the peak hours each dealer make more than $500 a night. Most clubs have $150-$200 an hour from each table and there are several tables in the facility. In the biggest of my facilities where I had 10% cut, there were 10 active tables which worked 14 hours a day. You can do the math'.
In the beginning and middle of 2000s underground clubs were advertised as almost any legal facility. Internet was used as another way of communication, unpopular among the most people, there were also SMS sending, ads in the casinos and so on.
Underground Poker Discovery Map
'I always organized games at stakes 1/2 1/3 to 2/5 and 90% of time I was avoiding 2/5 and higher. Big stakes games are robbed more often and players think that ½ is like play money. We made tens of thousands of dollars per night.
The point is in making them play longer. They think they are good at poker and get their money back quickly. More often than not they are wrong'.
These guys robbed Momo's Poker Club (Taylor, MI)
Underground clubs won't go anywhere and they work in the moment. Not just in New York. In any big city, big country, at all the continents. This is a whole industry with Forbes ratings.
More interesting and useful articles from the world of poker you can read in our blog. Also search for poker clubs in the country or city, get to know about upcoming poker tournaments or cash games at PokerDiscover.com portal.
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